Sorry to take so long to reply to your gracious words.

Sometimes I stress a bit, about over staying my welcome, in such an environment as this, and my blog comments were sooo lengthy on the matter of ministerial finances, that I thought I should back away for a while and not wear out my welcome. I’ve just checked back in recently.

I’m blessed by your kind words.

I hope my comments were clear about how much I respect Bretto’s beliefs and writings. I tracked with him item by item, and came out the other side of our discussion thoroughly supportive of his position. In fact, I have recommended the approach we discussed with several full time “outside the IC” ministries, because I believe it solves most of the problems of excess in that area.

At such time as God calls me back into a more “full time” approach to ministry, where it become apparent I am to look to Him and His body for financial support for a traveling and teaching ministry, I fully intend to construct the exact same model as Bretto has established. It just makes good biblical sense. For now I minister locally, while functioning in a marketplace type job.

I believe the season the Lord has me in, is one of removing the leaven of the Pharisees, the ways of IC Egypt, and personal needs for security and significance through ministry functions. I continue to study, write, and minister in my local environs, but I believe, in His timing, we will travel and teach again. I look forward to those days, in the Father’s timing.

I’m no where near the finished writer or thinker that Bretto is, but I know His call upon my life to study and teach is clear, permanent, and for His glory. In His time I hope to visit you brothers in the land down under, and spend time getting to know you. I’ve traveled and ministered in the IC in Australia, but not in the “freed” Church yet. I look foward to it.

Bretto and I do continue to email…even recently. I look forward to dialogue with him, and I respect the wisdom and calling upon his life.

You too, my friend, must write and teach! Your gifting is evident also. I enjoy each of your comments! Bretto is blessed to have a brother at his side like you.

Peace in Him.
Tom

Your current situation fully reminded me of that Scrip;

“I had rather be a doorkeeper in the house of my God, than to dwell in the tents of wickedness.” (Ps 84)

I stoked on yours & Brett’s convo about the Lord’s provision for ministers (see Underground Blueprint blog under ‘finance’). You’re obviously a competent fellow in the Word and your heart is certainly for Him…if I was Christ I’d be stoked to have you working for me full-time! I sincerely pray for you, that the same grace that God has bestowed upon Bretto should come upon you also, that you may be released/set apart to do the weightier works of the Lord - to tend to His Word and usher in this much-needed reformation. (dude i personally recommend u stay in contact with B.J. and email him all the questions ur wrestling with thru the site - sorry Bretto - it’s just i never met a full-time minister who doesn’t take up offerings! It does my head in…to the glory of God the Father!!!

May His name be praised 4ever!!!

davo.

But of course, it befits honor for us to honestly tell those, especially those “system oriented staff pastors,” what will face them if they decide to “come out.”

The beginnings of the revelations God brings us always seem filled with great excitement and promise, but the time of testing (unknown in length and depth) proves to be the telling agent between those who come out by “preference,” from those who come out by “conviction.”

When preference meets the reality of tested beliefs the suffering can be quite intense. I’m compelled by the way Jesus said it:

Matthew 13:20 “But he who received the seed on stony places, this is he who hears the word and immediately receives it with joy; 21 “yet he has no root in himself, but endures only for a while. For when tribulation or persecution arises because of the Word, immediately he stumbles.”

It should not surprise us, that Jesus would take sufficient time to burn out false motivations, longings for earth bound significance, and security related to “doing,” as He develops a deeper sense of the reality of His kingdom, and the House of God.

I don’t like the cross. I don’t think I’m supposed to like it. I think only an insane person would enjoy it. It’s very concept bespeaks misery, pain, and exasperated self protection. I have spent a lifetime begging God for the privilege of suffering with Christ, in His divinely appointed crosses for my life, but I must admit there are times when I’m sorely tempted to say “ENOUGH ALREADY!!!”

We who have heard the call to “come out,” must be ready to embrace what it means to “come out,” and none of us have any idea of what that will be at the time of our calling. I am sitting, right now, at my Mortgage Loan Officer’s desk, looking out at the sunny day we are having, fully aware that no matter how hard I try, market, call folks, or desire loans in my pipeline, if God has chosen to test the living daylights out of my life, in preparation “for what” I don’t know, that I may not enjoy huge success in this profession, and my longings for “full time ministry,” as I have known it previously, replete with office, title, salary, and honor, may haunt me mercilessly for an indefinite period, as God completely realigns my priorities, motivations, and concepts of ministry.

I have one desire, as relates to life occupation, and that remains the same as the day it was laid on my life, some 37 years ago, namely, to represent Christ, His life, His wisdom, and ways, to this world and especially His people, but I’m aware that His process of purifying that calling comes with seasons of intense challenge, and for right now, and for Who knows for how long, a very frustrating stint of loan officering that feels soooo outside of who I am in Him.

To all my brothers and sisters, who are hearing the romantic call to simple Church, free from the controlling and manipulative systems of organized Christianity, know also, that as you “come out,” you are also “coming in” to a process of realignment that will challenge you to the core of your being, and if you have come out without a willingness for that kind of challenge you should quickly retreat, ask for your job and title back, and recommit yourself to a Word nullifying life of the traditions of man if it is still available. Get on your knees and ask your congregation or Senior Pastor to forgive you for your rash stupidity at walking away from such a cushy and comfortable life of ministry. Let them know you will never again commit to following Jesus in the way of the cross, no matter how much He calls you to it. You have seen the error of your ways, have forsaken the cross, and just want to “get along” with everybody. Ahhh…the sweet life. Good luck to you, if you can do that. For me, I didn’t find the Lord gave me that option. I still remember the sweetness of the onions and leeks, but I will not be returning there. The smell of them still lingers, but the prize for the high calling of God, in Christ Jesus, allures me onward and deeper into the crosses and calling He has set before me.

But, on second thought Dave, maybe we shouldn’t tell them these things. Nobody told us. God just snuck up on us, slipped a cross between our shoulders and said “Here son, try this on for size…how’s that for ya?”

I know, I know, it’s not all cross and no joy…I’ve seen and experienced the joy too, but it seems that someone should tell them of the call to perseverance, long suffering, re-learning, and patience, otherwise we’ve only told them half the truth…

Romans 8:23ing in Him…

Tom

This thought occurred 2 me whilst answering some of the article’s questions…

The only antidote for a lie is the truth that the lie evaded.

For Truth is the only guy strong enough to set us free from the power of lies.

The devil is God’s reject and has long sought revenge. Man was ‘God’s glory’(1 Cor 11) and so the devil sought to ’steal’ him for his own glory.

How? Man is a “belief - machine”. (’For with the heart man believeth unto…’Rom 10). God feeds him with His Word and then he believes it and that belief makes him righteous and glorifies the One who fed him the Truth to begin with. God gets glory when Man believes His Message.

The devil knew he could glorify himself by getting Man to believe his (false) message instead of God’s Word. He is the ‘father’ of lies, as all of man’s lies thereafter stemmed from his own. He fed Man a lie, stupid Man believed it and the power of the lie stuffed up his whole system! Rather like feeding water into the fuel-tank of a person’s car you don’t like.

Jesus is the Truth that negates the lie. God gave Him so that whosoever should believe on Him would not perish as a result of the lie. When the perfect comes, the imperfect disappears. When you believe the truth of God’s love, it sets you free and the fear of uncertainty vanishes. Death is swallowed up in victory.

Nobody feared the school-yard bully once the new guy finally beat him up.

Thanks to that caring soul who explained the truth about tonight’s smart-casual party, you and your new girlfriend didn’t rock up to the front door dressed a pair of giant carrots.

But the Church is stuck in a lie. Someone has bewitched them into believing that the House of God is a system, a building, a structure or some other recognizable object of some man’s skill. Indeed, they have within them the very ‘form’ of godliness but are intent on denying its power in favour of the visible achievements of somebody who has convinced them that he knows God better than they do.

Good people who genuinely claim to believe the Bible are gripped by the fear that if they don’t fall in line with “God’s representative” and actively support the “House of God”, they will be rejected by the Lord Himself - from loss of favour to a Christless eternity. These are false messiahs. Self-seeking wolves.

Anyone with a two-bit Church history knows Martin Luther and rejoices in the day he stood up to the pope and stuck it to the Catholics. But what i see is that while most Christians understand in principle that the House of God is people and our spiritual connection one to another, not a building or a structure, few actually have the courage to put actions to their ‘belief’ and stand up to the lie - which renders their ‘belief’ no belief at all. O, that we would actually BELIEVE the things we believe.

We treat Jesus - the mighty Rock of our salvation - as we would a middle-sized pebble in a stream - it looks steady - it feels steady - but i better not put ALL my weight on it in case it turns out to be a ‘wonky rock’. Better keep one foot on Jesus and keep the other on the man-made, imitative, self-consumed, devil-inspired ‘House of God’…just to be safe!

Come on, flock! The gate is flung wide-open and you are released! Be free! Free from every bondage except Christ, His Word and His Spirit. Free from every yoke except the yoke to love your neighbour. And what an easy yoke that is! What a beatiful burden He has laid upon His beloved! “Come out of her, My people - you won’t regret it!”

(PS. Bretto - i’m back!)