Interesting discussion.

Paul, in referencing to his call as an apostle, says the following:

1Co 9:1 Am I not free? Am I not an apostle? Have I not seen Jesus our Lord? Are not you my workmanship in the Lord?

The early Church appears to have required of all scripture writing apostles, that they had had a direct “one on One” encounter with the Lord Jesus, of the highest order and most direct and real face to face sort of thing. However, there was a second tier of apostles, which I like to refer to as “Timothy type apostles,” or those who were mentored by the scripture writing apostles. These were very much considered to be apostles, but not of the order of the scripture writing apostles. I believe these are the apostles we are to look for in our day. And “Oh Lord God,” how we need them!!!

Secondly, I question whether we want to give a great deal of credence to anyone’s apostolic ministry, unless their lives come tightly close to what Paul references in the following verse:

2Co 12:12 The signs of a true apostle were performed among you with utmost patience, with signs and wonders and mighty works.

Little patience, and no signs, wonders, and mighty works, and I don’t have much of an ear for a so called “apostle.”

Then we want to look for genuine “remaining type” fruit from their lives. Anyone can run around saying they are an apostle, but I want to know of the people whose lives have been radically impacted by their ministry. If these folks are no where to be found then I’m not much impressed. Paul says this well:

1Co 9:2 If to others I am not an apostle, at least I am to you, for you are the seal of my apostleship in the Lord.

And I love the following verse. This is the one that knocks the stuffings out of most apostles who give themselves the title. So much back patting, man authorized, man centered ministry is going on, all over the kingdom, but I long for those who can say and live what Paul says in this next verse:

Gal 1:1 Paul, an apostle–not from men nor through man, but through Jesus Christ and God the Father, who raised him from the dead–

If an apostle doesn’t have the clear inward witness of who they are In Christ, and thus are looking for continual support, acknowledgment, applause, and honors of men, then their apostleship lacks authenticity and power. Where are the men who know who they are in God, move forward in that confidence, and don’t look for continual confirmation from other men for the things they’ve seen in Christ? We need men “sent of God!”

And finally, this speaks loudly of it. Apostles do what they do, and manifest their “apostleness” by moving from the awareness of their being under the “command” of God, to say and do what they say and do. If we can do or not do, then we’re under our own command, and this means nothing. But, if everything we do emanates from a strong inner sense of “God has commanded me to say and do…” then the Church will learn to see what a submissive and powerful life looks like. Paul models the right thing before young Timothy.

1Ti 1:1 Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by command of God our Savior and of Christ Jesus our hope,

So, I encourage the body of Christ to overthrow all forms of man centered man authorized apostleship, in favor of the real thing these verses reveal. If these things be evident, along with all the character traits of 1 Timothy 3, and Titus 1, then we’re looking at some good things to come for the Church.

Keep your eyes wide open…God has His 7,000 in deep preparations for the development of this - the Greatest Reformation of the Church, in all Church history!!!!!

Blessings
Tom

Of course one wouldn’t knock back a personal sittng with Father in the third heaven, however, I think we should err on the side of caution with stating that any Eph 4:11 ministers must have literally been and seen. Jesus said “blessed are they that have not seen, and yet have believed” (John 20:29). I, and many others, have not been to the third heaven, have not literally seen, or audibly heard Father, yet God has transformed and used us greatly.

I agree with the complete revelation part though… at least partially. What should be pre-requesit for apostles and prophets, and every believer actually, is a true and lasting transformation, a new creation reality which produces lasting change and ongoing growth in the Spirit.

Glad you liked the article.

Hi Greg,

I’m not sure I understand what you are trying to say. Are you suggesting that apostles and prophets of our times must have literally been to heaven to see Father? And this transfiguration you speak of, is it in reference to a truly changed, heavenly life, or a literal earhly experience?

Also, did your above comment mean you agreed with the article or that you didn’t?

Just looking for clarity.

Bretto