Comments on: Principles In New Testament Ministry Money (video series) Part 1 of 5 http://www.christisall.org/2009/04/15/principles-in-new-testament-ministry-money-video-series-part-1-of-5/ Making Him Our Focus, His Word Our Foundation Mon, 15 Mar 2010 09:29:10 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.6.3 By: Brett Jacobsen http://www.christisall.org/2009/04/15/principles-in-new-testament-ministry-money-video-series-part-1-of-5/#comment-35882 Brett Jacobsen Tue, 21 Apr 2009 00:13:04 +0000 http://www.christisall.org/?p=334#comment-35882 Hi Seth, I should cover these thoughts/questions over the next four parts. Anything I don't cover that is an important part of the subject let me know and I'll respond. I like what you say about spontaneous Spirit led giving to needs. I think that should be a part of all believers' lives regularly. Love should compel us to look forward to blessing others... especially those who have needs. In this series though, I am specifically addressing ministry money for apostolic workers and some equipping elders. I won't be covering every area of christian finances but will try to touch on the broader picture to provide context. While we should be giving to each other in Love, this does not replace financing apostles and other equippers who are sent out from us and ministering among us. Too many throw out the baby with the bath water. In number two and three I will speak more specifically about the who's and hows of ministry support, but for this opening lesson I just wanted to look at Paul's presentation of a first fruits type principle for supporting Kingdom ministry. A non-legalistic, consistent laying aside of our first for the advancement and maturation of the Kingdom. Also, what you said about not giving "beyond our ability" (except when the Lord challenges so) is good. There have been many and varied imbalances with giving. Widow tithing off $200 a week is huge, rich cat tithing off $3000 per week is a cop out. Thanks for your comments, keep em coming. Gospel Love, Bretto Hi Seth,

I should cover these thoughts/questions over the next four parts. Anything I don’t cover that is an important part of the subject let me know and I’ll respond.

I like what you say about spontaneous Spirit led giving to needs. I think that should be a part of all believers’ lives regularly. Love should compel us to look forward to blessing others… especially those who have needs.

In this series though, I am specifically addressing ministry money for apostolic workers and some equipping elders. I won’t be covering every area of christian finances but will try to touch on the broader picture to provide context.

While we should be giving to each other in Love, this does not replace financing apostles and other equippers who are sent out from us and ministering among us. Too many throw out the baby with the bath water. In number two and three I will speak more specifically about the who’s and hows of ministry support, but for this opening lesson I just wanted to look at Paul’s presentation of a first fruits type principle for supporting Kingdom ministry. A non-legalistic, consistent laying aside of our first for the advancement and maturation of the Kingdom.

Also, what you said about not giving “beyond our ability” (except when the Lord challenges so) is good. There have been many and varied imbalances with giving. Widow tithing off $200 a week is huge, rich cat tithing off $3000 per week is a cop out.

Thanks for your comments, keep em coming.

Gospel Love,
Bretto

]]> By: Seth http://www.christisall.org/2009/04/15/principles-in-new-testament-ministry-money-video-series-part-1-of-5/#comment-35879 Seth Sat, 18 Apr 2009 14:51:21 +0000 http://www.christisall.org/?p=334#comment-35879 Brother Bretto, Thank you for the teaching. For those coming out of systems religion and in the wilderness this is definately one subject that comes under scrutinity since it has been so tied to the system instead of the law of the spirit in Christ. I am sure you will touch on other aspects of this in later parts of the series but one of the major things is like you said getting away from the tithe or rithe mindset. Giving cheerfully and not under obligation. I believe God is more interested in the heart of our giving rather than the amount. Since most christians are used to giving on a regular basis to a particular church or ministry it is a change when coming out of that setting and especially when grasping this new found freedom of the life of Christ- empasis on life- free of dualism. I will just share a few thoughts that i have so far since my journey out of systems religion and appreciate your feedback. For one, knowing I am a part of the body of Christ universal is a comfort, knowing that we are accepted in the beloved. I also look forward to daily communing with a local body of believers as a face to face shared life under the headship of Christ taking care of one another and sharing with one another (which I only experience on a very small limited scale at this point ,therefore that is why I stated i feel that I am in the wilderness). For myself right now I am learning to know the Lord in an ever increasing intimate way free from sterile formula and routine and more of a living breathing fellowship that encompasses all of my life. For Chrisians I believe it is natural to be giving and even sacrificial as a heart attitude and lifestyle. I have tried to maintain an openness (open ear and responsive heart) becoming a channel for God to bless others. For instance if a brother or sister is in need and praying to the Lord for assistance and the Lord makes that need aware to me in what ever way He chooses and I know in my heart that He is asking me to meet that need then I count the cost perhaps it will be a sacrifice and then I do that, I give according to the need with a willing and obedient heart and the result is praise and glory to God, mutual love and thanksgiving to God. I believe as a christian we should be open and aware at all times to His spirit and learn when He is leading us to give and when not to. For instance a need may arise for a family and it is made known to many. I believe God will put it on some to give and not on others depending on what they are able. Perhaps the need is really great and all are moved by the Lord to sacrificially give something as in the case of the macedonians for helping the believers in jerusalem. I have even seen where a provision will come unexpected and then not to long after a need will arise that the provision meets and we become a channel of God's blessing. I also don't think that God will ask us to give beyond our ability where we either go into debt or are unable to meet our obligations if we are in debt or take food from our family unless it is very rare circumstance perhaps. I understand the main point of giving is heart attitude and sensitivity to the Holy spirit in conjunction with the principles of God. But to have requirement as we were used to in the past where a rich man can give 10% and it not even bother him financially and he feel like he met his requirement and then on the other hand a poor single mom or widow giving 10% will take food off her table or she will not be able to pay her house bill and feels so obligated but wants to make sure she is obedient. These are just some of my thoughts and ways I have learned to deal with the subject of giving. I appreciate your teaching and look forward to the other parts. Your thoughts and response are welcomed. Brother Bretto,
Thank you for the teaching. For those coming out of systems religion and in the wilderness this is definately one subject that comes under scrutinity since it has been so tied to the system instead of the law of the spirit in Christ. I am sure you will touch on other aspects of this in later parts of the series but one of the major things is like you said getting away from the tithe or rithe mindset. Giving cheerfully and not under obligation. I believe God is more interested in the heart of our giving rather than the amount. Since most christians are used to giving on a regular basis to a particular church or ministry it is a change when coming out of that setting and especially when grasping this new found freedom of the life of Christ- empasis on life- free of dualism. I will just share a few thoughts that i have so far since my journey out of systems religion and appreciate your feedback. For one, knowing I am a part of the body of Christ universal is a comfort, knowing that we are accepted in the beloved. I also look forward to daily communing with a local body of believers as a face to face shared life under the headship of Christ taking care of one another and sharing with one another (which I only experience on a very small limited scale at this point ,therefore that is why I stated i feel that I am in the wilderness). For myself right now I am learning to know the Lord in an ever increasing intimate way free from sterile formula and routine and more of a living breathing fellowship that encompasses all of my life. For Chrisians I believe it is natural to be giving and even sacrificial as a heart attitude and lifestyle. I have tried to maintain an openness (open ear and responsive heart) becoming a channel for God to bless others. For instance if a brother or sister is in need and praying to the Lord for assistance and the Lord makes that need aware to me in what ever way He chooses and I know in my heart that He is asking me to meet that need then I count the cost perhaps it will be a sacrifice and then I do that, I give according to the need with a willing and obedient heart and the result is praise and glory to God, mutual love and thanksgiving to God. I believe as a christian we should be open and aware at all times to His spirit and learn when He is leading us to give and when not to. For instance a need may arise for a family and it is made known to many. I believe God will put it on some to give and not on others depending on what they are able. Perhaps the need is really great and all are moved by the Lord to sacrificially give something as in the case of the macedonians for helping the believers in jerusalem. I have even seen where a provision will come unexpected and then not to long after a need will arise that the provision meets and we become a channel of God’s blessing. I also don’t think that God will ask us to give beyond our ability where we either go into debt or are unable to meet our obligations if we are in debt or take food from our family unless it is very rare circumstance perhaps. I understand the main point of giving is heart attitude and sensitivity to the Holy spirit in conjunction with the principles of God. But to have requirement as we were used to in the past where a rich man can give 10% and it not even bother him financially and he feel like he met his requirement and then on the other hand a poor single mom or widow giving 10% will take food off her table or she will not be able to pay her house bill and feels so obligated but wants to make sure she is obedient. These are just some of my thoughts and ways I have learned to deal with the subject of giving. I appreciate your teaching and look forward to the other parts. Your thoughts and response are welcomed.

]]>