Principles In New Testament Ministry Money (video series) Part 5 of 5
The topic of ministry money is of great importance in this reformation season due to the lack of clarity and the many imbalanced views presented. On the one hand we have legalism, rapacity and mans’ kingdom building, on the other hand reactionary fear, confusion and disguised individualism. This series endeavours to present a biblical balance in the area of finances in Kingdom ministry. Surely the aim is biblical and Holy Spirit integrity and freedom in our financial support for the extension and enhancement of Christ’s great Kingdom.
Part 5 - Ministry Support and General Benevolence
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Thank you.
December 13th, 2009 at 10:07 am
Cut to the chase. Could you? Lay everything down that you are doing? And pick it up again in a different capacity? Could you let go of the position you are in? Could you let go of your wage? And go to work in an 8 to 5 mundane job? Could you lay your life (style) down to serve the body of Christ in a lowly position of a slave rather than paid clergy? Matt 20:25-27; just a few questions I thought may provoke some discussion. True or false the moment you receive a weekly wage you have set yourself apart from the rest of your community that is if you are the only one being paid for your service in your local community? Right or wrong it is like the dog returning to his vomit and licking up the same old regurgitated garbage of the hierarchical system? Are we not meant to be different? Have we not got a better way? Like it or not the moment MONEY is involved it releases a POWER of its own. Where your treasure is, there will be your heart also; the love MONEY is the root of all evil. To my mind 2 things go hand in hand with the hierarchical system the POWER MONEY has and the POWER STATUS / POSITION /CONTROL has. I feel in my gut that to avoid this entrapment the words of the saints of old and Jesus ring loud and clear. 3John 9 bad boy Diotrephes who loved to have preeminence, and Rev 2:6; But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolai tans whish I also HATE. 2:15; so you have them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolai tans, which thing I HATE. More position power and control and hierarchical garbage. I believe we are in agreement with the latter part of the hierarchical system. But the first part MONEY, I am in agreement with the FREE giving principal to whom so ever and where so ever the Spirit leads. I am not into the doctrine of locking in a regular amount/tithe. Feels like bondage to me! This robs me of my FREEDOM, to give from my heart of love and goodwill. And makes it like a law that becomes a heavy weight upon my spirit and drowns me in the sea of zombie. I know you have built a very good argument to be paid a regular wage, that’s cool and that is your journey and I love you in it all. But there are 2 sides to every argument and now you know mine. Peace out my Brother.
December 14th, 2009 at 10:31 pm
I need to clarify my belief and stand on the local elder not being paid a regular wage.
Regarding the word honour in 1Tim5:17; in this passage the word means honour or respect. The context bears this out.
First the specific Greek words that the New Testament uses for the “financial payment” wages or salary is misthos and osponion, these are not used in the Timothy 5 passage. As you have pointed out the Greek word for honour is (time) and it means respect or value. (The word did not mean honorarium in the first century. It is never used in the New Testament or in the first century literature.)
The elders who labor well are to be respected and valued by the church. This same word is used in 1Timothy 6:1; where Paul says for slaves to respect (time) their masters. In fact the word time is used 4 times in 1Timothy and it means “respect” in every case.
Second, all believers are called to honour (time) one another (Rom 12:10
it would be absurd to think that Paul in Romans is telling the Christians to pay one another.
The elders who serve well are to receive more honour-or greater respect.
Third, the fact that respect is what Paul had in mind is born out by the next verse (1tim 5:19
Paul says that the elders are not to be accused (dishonored) unless there are 2 or 3 witnesses to confirm the accusation.
And in 1 Cor 10:24; Let no man seek his own, but every man another’s wealth.
and in (1Tim5:8 
providing for your own household. Then in (1Tim 6:6-10 
Again talking about money and saying the love of money is the root of all evil. And again in (1Tim 6:17-19 
talking about money. It appears as a letter that did not have chapter or verses that there was a flow of thought on the dangers of covetousness, greed in relation to money. Also a flow of thought on respect and value.
What I see Paul saying there is that just an employee deserves money and just as a working ox deserves food, an elder in the church who serves the church well deserves double honour. Not single honour as all the body do, but double honour. That is, greater respect.
I see Paul drawing an analogy. He is not talking about financial payment or a salary. If we take it that way then Paul contradicts what he said in (Acts 20) he told them, I have coveted no mans silver, or gold, or apparel. I have shewed you all things, how that so laboring ye ought to support the weak, and to remember the words of the Lord Jesus, how he said, It is more blessed to give than receive. (Acts20:33-35
Paul makes a point of repeating a point on, not greedy for filthy lucre, not covetous. (1Tim3: 3-8
The reason I threw out that statement about abandoning your position and getting a 8-5 job, was this, when someone receives a wage/salary from Gods people they are set apart from the rest of Gods people, they are seen as someone better, someone different, someone of a higher class. Also some one in a local assembly who receives a consistent wage hinders the church from functioning. If you were to leave your position and local community for a year would they function well without you? Have they been trained to function without a paid clergy? I am not talking about traveling apostles. That is a different story. I know from experience that paid clergy creates a dysfunction in the body, a sitting on the lees, abandonment of seeking the lord and preparing to contribute to the next gathering. Why bother brother so and so is paid to do that. And if brother so and so is the paid clergy then he must be in charge, the leader, the solo surpremo pastor etc.
It changes the natural organic growth of the body. Sad but true.
I believe your motives for receiving a wage from Gods people is pure, and I love you in that.
Your thoughts on a principal of God flowing in the area of first fruits giving and priestly pay, becomes obsolete as the old system of payment is finished. We are all now Kings and Priests. It is a new age, a new way of living, a new wine skin.
Sad to say even today the people still clamor for a king not that God is happy about it but he allows it to happen so man can see it is not gods best.
I could say a lot more, but I am sure you can feel me Brother! So bye for now and peace out.
December 16th, 2009 at 4:13 pm
Yes, I will cut to the chase.
Your comments are loaded with ignorant assumption.
I am not in a position.
I have laid it all down many times and continue to do so. (He still wants me to teach etc, and a labourer is still worthy of his wage/misthos).
I’ve done many mundane jobs. Also, what’s not mundane about responding to presumptuous comments like yours?
I’m not a paid clergy, I don’t have a position, I am lowly (you don’t know me from a bar of soap). What sort of “lifestyle” do you ignorantly presume I have? I would have a better “lifestyle” if I ran a business or worked a well paying job.
You said “True or false the moment you receive a weekly wage you have set yourself apart from the rest of your community that is if you are the only one being paid for your service in your local community? Right or wrong it is like the dog returning to his vomit and licking up the same old regurgitated garbage of the hierarchical system? Are we not meant to be different?”
False. They all get wages for what they do, so do I. Also, I receive donations to minister to others more than to anyone locally. They send me out. Who do you think pays me? I have a ministry account which I pay myself (with accountability) a moderate wage (as long as enough money has been donated). You seem reactionary and imbalanced.
Now your quoting about the love of money. You have no idea do you? If I loved money things would be way different. You should hold your lips when you know nothing of me or my ministry etc.
Again you say MONEY, STATUS, POSITION, CONTROL all go hand in hand. Do you work and earn a wage? Are you given to status, position and control because you get paid for your work? You are talking nonsense.
You mention Diotrephes as if you know why he loved the pre-eminence. Did he even get paid?
Your FREE giving is a distortion. I have promoted Spirit-led giving and Spirit-led living in all things. That doesn’t mean we throw away the Bible and just do whatever we feel only. There are clear principles in the Bible which give us a foundation of living and giving. The Spirit leads us specifically to outwork what doesn’t contradict what He has inspired into scripture.
I didn’t say to tithe, I said that the Bible presents a firstfruits principle of consistency. I don’t lock anyone into anything. But what is your problem with the Spirit leading people to give consistently to a certain ministry for a season to send them out to minister? What you are saying feels like bondage to me. Is there no one in your community doing something worthy of regular support, how sad. Does Spirit-led giving necessitate never doing the same thing twice. That’s nonsense.
Second comment-
You said “local elder”. Sounds like you have it twisted. There should be plural elders in an area. They shouldn’t be above people, they shouldn’t run a company (church) but flow amongst the community. Some of them labour in the word and doctrine and therefore are worthy of a wage. That’s what the Bible says. It doesn’t matter if it makes you comfortable or not.
Your first point is way off. You didn’t do what I asked and read the written version did you. You also didn’t study the 1 Tim 5 scrip in context. I suggest you do your homework before shooing off you mouth (fingers) next time. Verse 18 uses the word misthos that you said it doesn’t??? Also, read the verses before to see that the whole point Paul was making was about bearing the financial burden of true widows, then straight onto time/financially valuing teaching elders, then it says in direct relation to those point “The labourer is worthy of his misthos”.
You are wasting my time I feel. You are also dissing me without knowing what I do or how I do it.
I see further down you said about someone in a local assembly receiving a wage. I don’t think we are even on the same page. I don’t belong to or go to a “local assembly”. I try to live the Kingdom every day every where and so do those who I break bread with in various places. Clearly the picture that you have is not accurate. Some people throw support to me so I can be given to the minstry of the word and prayer (Acts 6) and labour in the word and doctrine (1 Tim 5). I haven’t stage strutted in many years so don’t make calls about some “lifestyle” you know nothing of.
I’m fed up with people like you being reactionary to the system and therefore taking things to the other side of imbalance. If you don’t change you will hinder many from coming out of systemic sanctuaries by your extra-biblical extremes. I suggest you thoroughly read the article version of the teaching before you let loose again http://www.christisall.org/2009/06/16/principles-in-new-testament-ministry-money-written/